There are NO “Angels” in the Bible

Good Morning Mr. Benner, once again I just read your blog about "Angel" and for some reason it was on my mind to ask you this question. I know the correct term for angel is messenger but how do I know when a passage is referring to a regular messenger or a spiritual one aka malak or angel. I am pretty sure there is a verse somewhere in the bible where messenger does not refer to a spiritual being.

I most definitely believe in messengers and I also believe that they excel in strength and do Abbas bidding and they can shapeshift into men as the bible states. And I have my own personal experience as well

I think messengers is 100% accurate. Been studying hasatan latley, is amazing the stuff that gets made up in the interpretations. I assume it was around this same time, 6th century B.C., that the satan deity was created also. All my life I was taught that we are battling against satan and was amazed to find he never existed. As part of my study I was looking at the serpent in Genesis also, nahash seems to actually mean similar to divination or guessing opposed to a serpent. I'm wondering if this creature that is wiser than all other creatures created isn't actually hawah and her reasoning in her own mind. Seems hasatan, the adversary, can be a messenger, another person, or ones own mind. I realize there is no direct relationship between hasatan and nahash, but seems to me they are very similar in the context of Genesis.

i agree with that the word angels is inaccurate

however i don’t agree with the conclusion that messengers are only men.

there is language in both canon and ancient writings like jubilees and especially 1 enoch that messengers are ministering spirits and not normal man made of dirt

to grasp that the messengers are made of water and spirit, appear as men, and are able to eat you’d need a functioning knowledge of biblical cosmology

shalom

Vor der Eins - was kannst Du (Mensch) da noch zählen!
Zur Ontologie der „Mal'akim“ (Boten)

Betreff: Eine Replik auf die These „Es gibt keine Engel, nur menschliche Boten“ Basis: Analyse von Jeff A. Benner vs. Biblischer Befund & Metaphysik

1. Die linguistische Zustimmung (Das Fundament)

Wir stimmen Ihrer sprachlichen Analyse vollumfänglich zu:

• Das hebräische Wort mal'ak (מַלְאָךְ) bedeutet funktional „Bote“ und impliziert keine Flügel, Heiligenscheine oder harfenspielende Putten.

• Diese Bilder sind kulturelle Importe (Griechisch/Römisch) und nicht biblisch.

• In der Schrift treten diese Boten visuell oft als „Männer“ (anashim) auf (z.B. Genesis 18 & 19).

2. Der theologische Widerspruch (Die Grenzen der „Männer-These“)

Die Schlussfolgerung, dass es sich ausschließlich um natürliche Menschen handelte und der übernatürliche Aspekt erst durch persischen Einfluss (Zoroastrismus) entstand, greift zu kurz und widerspricht der internen Logik der Tora:

• Macht: Ein menschlicher Bote tötet keine 185.000 Assyrer in einer Nacht (2. Könige 19).

• Biologie: Jesus definiert Engel als Wesen, die nicht heiraten (Matthäus 22), im Gegensatz zu Menschen.

• Genesis 6: Die „Söhne Gottes“ (Benai Elohim) zeugten mit Menschenfrauen die Nephilim. Wären es nur normale Männer gewesen, wären keine „Riesen/Vorzeithelden“ entstanden, sondern normale Kinder. Hier wurde eine Artengrenze durchbrochen.

3. Die Hypothese der Manifestation: „Nebel und Wassertropfen“

Anstatt das Übernatürliche zu leugnen, schlagen wir ein physikalisch-spirituelles Modell vor, das erklärt, warum Geister (Ruach/Pneuma) als feste Materie erscheinen können, ohne „Antimaterie“ zu sein.

Das Modell der Dichte (Kondensation): Wir stellen die Starrheit moderner Physik (Einstein/Standardmodell) infrage. Materie und Geist sind keine getrennten Universen, sondern Zustandsformen derselben göttlichen Realität.

• Geist (Ruach) ist wie Nebel/Dampf: Er ist real, enthält Tausende Moleküle, ist aber flüchtig, unsichtbar und durchdringend.

• Materie (Fleisch) ist wie der Wassertropfen: Er ist derselbe Stoff wie der Nebel, aber verdichtet, „abgekühlt“ und in Form gebracht.

Schlussfolgerung: Ein Mal'ak ist ein Wesen aus „geistigem Dampf“. Er besitzt jedoch die (von Gott verliehene) Fähigkeit zur Kondensation.

• Er kann sich verdichten, um physisch zu interagieren (essen bei Abraham, Lot an der Hand packen).

• Er kann sich wieder verflüchtigen (verschwinden), wie Dampf sich auflöst. Das erklärt, warum sie wie Männer aussehen und sich anfühlen (Materie), aber von ihrem Wesen her Geister sind. Es ist keine Illusion, sondern eine Manifestation durch Dichteänderung.

4. Fazit

Die Bibel beschreibt keine „fabelhaften Flügelwesen“, aber sie beschreibt auch keine bloßen Postboten. Sie beschreibt multidimensionale Wesen, die den „Aggregatzustand“ ihrer Existenz wechseln können. Die Lehre von Materie und Geist muss neu gedacht werden: Nicht als Gegensätze, sondern als Skala der Dichte. Fleisch ist „geronnener Geist“, gehalten durch das Wort Gottes.

This!!!! It's so fabulous that God can teach us things and then provides back up. Thank you! There are messengers of truth (messenger of yhwh) and messengers of lies (think "satan", the "fallen", the first lie). This makes sense out of Jesus' saying that we entertain "angels". It also brings light to mysterious statements in revelation. We listen to messengers. Some good, some not good. Discernment/ judgement is knowing the difference between them.

MattitYAHU 28:2-9

Personally twice at least I meet Angels but with human appearance ,and once invisible ángel stopped a killer to Crash my head to floor ,agresor told me later His arm was like stopped slowly

There are angels in the Bible. If they are not described as having wings, then perhaps they don't. Because they are described as "men," these messengers might be sent in that form every time they are sent. Or maybe not. In Eden, the creature that tempted eve is described as a serpent. Satan as a term may have originated much later, but still could be applied to the source of all temptation... In my opinion, which is not necessarily scholarly, the two terms, satan and serpent, describe the same being. The same being that tempted Eve, causing the fall of the human race, is the Tempter that tempted Jesus in the wilderness...

Hi Jeff,

I learned this several years ago, but am still trying to break the 'muscle-memory' habit of asking GOD to give His 'angels' charge over my family that came from my AME Zion childhood religion.

The scope of pagan mixture into modern Christianity warrants the knowledge of ones like you being shouted from the rooftops! Thank you for posting this truth about the actual meaning of the Hebrew word and about the mixture with Zorastrianism.

Please share any insight you have about Zechariah 5:9. Are the Messengers of the big G, GOD; agents of hasatan; female?

I agree with much of what you said. They did not have wings. Only cherubs had wings. And they did not sing. In heaven and outside of Bethlehem, they shouted and declared but they did not sing. Only the multitudes of saved humans in heaven sang. And, yes, they were all messengers.

Yes, they were in the form of men. each time. But I found the following scriptures indicating that one was God materialized. (Remember John 1:1 and 14? The Word WAS God and became flesh?)

Abraham

2067 BC

When Abraham was ninety-nine years old, “The Lord appeared to Abraham….Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby….He said, ‘If I have found favor in your eyes, my Lord, do not pass your servant by….Then the Lord said, “I will return to you about this time next year, and Sarah your wife will have a son….Is anything too hard for the Lord?’” We see here that Jesus announced the birth of Isaac.

Abraham

2067 BC

There were some cities that were very evil and God decided to destroy them completely. “When the men got up to leave, they looked down toward Sodom….Then the Lord said, ‘Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do?’...Then the Lord said, ‘The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous’…The [three] men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham approached him and said: ‘Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? What if there are fifty righteous people in the city?...

“The Lord said, ‘If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for heir sake’…When the Lord had finished speaking with Abraham, he left and Abraham returned home. The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening….

“So, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, he remembered Abraham.” We see here that Jesus materialized in the form of one of the three men who visited Abraham. When the Lord appeared to Abraham, that was who we would later identify as Jesus.

Abraham

c. 2054 BC

Abraham waited a long time to have a son. When he was finally born, he was a miracle baby, for Abraham was now one hundred years old, and his wife was ninety years old. Later, probably when Isaac was a teenager, God told Abraham to sacrifice his only begotten son to him.

(Some ask why Abraham’s first-born, Ishmael, wasn’t considered his begotten son. Ishmael was the son of a slave woman, Hagar, and that made Ishmael a slave too. He was not legally recognized as a son.)

In the Bible account of the sacrifice, it says, “But The Angel of the Lord called out to him from heaven, ‘Do not lay a hand on the boy. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son’ “.

Then “The Angel of the Lord called to Abraham from heaven a second time and said, ‘I swear by myself, declares the Lord, that, because you have not withheld your son, your only son, I will surely bless you…”.

Hagar

2050 BC

Sarah, the wife of Abraham, could not bear him children. So, according to the custom 4000 years ago, Sarah suggested her husband mate with her Egyptian slave, Hagar, so she could be a surrogate mother for a child for Sarah. But, when Hagar became pregnant, she began acting ugly toward Sarah and taunting her. So Sarah treated Hagar the same way Hagar had treated her, and Hagar ran away.

“The Angel of the Lord found her and told her, ‘Go back to your mistress and submit to her.” He also told her she would have a son and was to name him Ishmael. Hagar replied, “You are the God who sees me. I have now seen the One who sees me.”

Jacob

1906 BC

Years later, Jacob returned home. By this time, he had two wives and twelve sons. He neared his homeland. “So Jacob was left alone, and the man wrestled with him till daybreak…..Then the man said, ‘Let me go, for it is daybreak.’ But Jacob replied, ‘I will not let you go unless you bless me….

“Then the man said, Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome….So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, ‘It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared’”.

Jacob was about to enter a hostile land that God was giving him. That night, when he wrestled all night, he proved he was a man who could stick with something longer than other men could. He had wrestled with a physical manifestation of God, Jesus.

Moses

1445 BC

Jacob, now called Israel, had a son, Joseph who started out as a slave in Egypt and eventually became next to Pharaoh in importance. He brought his father and brothers to be with him in Egypt. But they did not return home. Joseph apparently lived another thirty years (accounting for the 430 years in some scriptures).

They stayed after Joseph died until the Egyptians turned them into slaves. They were slaves 400 years. Then Moses led them out of their slavery. Moses led these former slaves for forty years.

“With Moses I speak face to face, clearly and not in riddles; he sees the form of the Lord. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?”

Balaam

1407 BC

A pagan prophet named Balaam wanted to prophesy against the Israelites. So, “The Angel of the Lord stood in the road to oppose him….the Lord opened Balaam’s eyes and he saw The Angel of the Lord standing in the road with his sword drawn. So he bowed low and fell face down”.

We know this was not just an ordinary angel because, when an ordinary angel was bowed down to, he said it was wrong. “Then the angel said to me….At this I fell down at this feet to worship him, but he said to me, ‘Do not do it! I am a fellow servant”. The same thing happened when the Apostle John was again told not to bow down before an angel.

Joshua

1406 BC

After Moses died, Joshua took his place. As he led the people near Jericho, Joshua “saw a man standing in front of him with a drawn sword in his hand. The man said, “ ‘As commander of the army of the Lord I have now come.’ Then Joshua fell facedown to the ground in reverence ….The commander of the Lord’s army replied, ‘Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy’ “

Joshua & Israelites

1375 BC

Shortly before Joshua died, The Angel of the Lord told the Israelites, “I brought you up out of Egypt and led you into the land I swore to give to your forefathers. I said I will never break my covenant with you.” Angels did not make covenants with people; only God did.

Gideon

1169 BC

The Israelites settled in their land, but turned from God. Finally Gideon, a supreme judge over Israel was approached by God. “When The Angel of the Lord appeared to Gideon, he said, ‘The Lord is with you….The Lord answered, “I will be with you.’ “ At the end of their conversation “The Angel of the Lord disappeared. When Gideon realized it was The Angel of the Lord, he exclaimed, ‘Ah, sovereign Lord! I have seen the angel of the Lord face to face”.

Samson’s Parents

1090 BC

At a time when the Israelites were being ruled by their enemy because of their sin, The Angel of the Lord appeared to Manoah’s wife. She told her husband, a man of God came to her who looked like an angel of God, very awesome. He later appeared to both Manoah and his wife. Manoah offered to fix him a meal and he turned him down, but said he should prepare a burnt offering to the Lord.

“Then Manoah inquired of The Angel of the Lord, ‘What is your name, so we may honor you when your word comes true?’ He replied, ‘Why do you ask my name? It is beyond understanding’.” Then Manoah made the burnt offering to the Lord, and “as the flame blazed up from the altar toward heaven, The Angel of the Lord ascended in the flame…We are doomed to die, for we have seen God!”.

I don’t believe such a significant claim about God’s messengers should be made, without properly giving evidence for the truth of that claim.  You mention that when reading about messengers ‘you would find nothing in the text that would lead you to assume they were something extraordinary or supernatural’.  But, this is very easily found to be untrue.  For example, this is clearly seen in the Judges passage you quote (Judges 13).  In verse 6 the woman also thinks that this messenger is an ordinary man, and refers to him as a man of God.  But, then in verse 20, this messenger ascends up in the flame of the altar.  Now he’s shown to be an extraordinary man, properly fitting the definition of supernatural.  And Manoah seemed to think so as well, because he said to his wife ‘we shall surely die, because we have seen God (Elohim)’.  And that’s not a statement anyone would make if they’d just seen an ordinary man, like a prophet of God.

In Psalm 104:4, the Psalmist says, ‘Who makes his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire’.  A reference, it seems, to the burning bush incident, where the messenger of God appeared to Moses in a flame of fire (Exodus 3:2).  Again showing an extraordinary being, and clearly supernatural.  And the fact that they also appear to people as men doesn’t detract from this.  Being a man, and being supernatural, are not opposing things.  Jesus after his resurrection is referred to as a man, yet he was then very much supernatural as well.  So, perhaps the question should more be about mortal and immortal.  A mortal man is ordinary and natural, but an immortal man is extraordinary and supernatural.  So, when we read of God’s messengers as men, we have to examine the context to find what sort of men they were.  Were they ordinary mortal men, like a prophet for example, or were they immortal supernatural men?

The depiction of angels with wings is a common and powerful image, but it's important to note that in the canonical scriptures of the Bible, descriptions of angels with wings are less frequent than popular culture suggests. Most angels in the Bible appear in human form.

However, there are key exceptions where specific types of heavenly beings are described with wings. Here are the main scriptural references.

1. The Cherubim (Powerful Guardians)

Cherubim are often depicted with wings and are associated with God's glory, presence, and majesty.

Exodus 25:20 (Regarding the Ark of the Covenant): "The cherubim are to have their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them. The cherubim are to face each other, looking toward the cover." (See also Exodus 37:9, 1 Kings 6:24-27)

Ezekiel 10:5-21 (In a prophetic vision): This is the most detailed description. Ezekiel describes the "living creatures" (identified as cherubim in Ezekiel 10:20) with four faces and four wings each. The sound of their wings is "like the roar of rushing waters."

Genesis 3:24: After driving Adam and Eve out, God stations cherubim with a flaming sword to guard the way to the Tree of Life. Though wings aren't explicitly mentioned here, traditional interpretation and art depict them with wings.

2. The Seraphim (Burning Ones)

Seraphim appear only in Isaiah's vision and are specifically described with wings, emphasizing their role in worship and purity.

Isaiah 6:1-3: "Above him were seraphim, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying." They cry to one another, "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord Almighty."

3. The "Living Creatures" (Heavenly Beings Around the Throne)

Found in Revelation, these beings share similarities with Ezekiel's vision and are constantly in worship.

Revelation 4:8: "Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying: 'Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty...'"

Important Context:

Angels as Men: The vast majority of angels in the Bible (like those who visit Abraham, Lot, or Mary) appear as men without any mention of wings. Sometimes they are not even recognized as angels at first (Hebrews 13:2).

Wings Symbolize Function, Not Biology: In these scriptures, wings symbolize swiftness, protection (overshadowing), and the ability to move between heaven and earth (the realm of God and the realm of humans). The covering of faces and feet by the Seraphim signifies reverence and humility in God's overwhelming presence.

Not "Cute Cupids": The winged putti or baby-like cupids of Renaissance art are a blend of classical mythology (Eros/Cupid) and later Christian art, not a biblical depiction. Biblical cherubim are mighty and awe-inspiring, not infant-like.

Hierarchies: Later Christian theology (like that of Pseudo-Dionysius, 5th-6th century) developed complex hierarchies of angels (Angels, Archangels, Principalities, Powers, Virtues, Dominions, Thrones, Cherubim, Seraphim), which influenced art and tradition but are not explicitly laid out in the Bible.

In Other Abrahamic Traditions:

* Islam: The Quran mentions angels with wings, but the number varies. "... Who made the angels messengers with wings, two or three or four..." (Quran 35:1) understandably, Islam came way later than Judaism and Christianity, where their religion built on borrowed ideas.

* Judaism: Jewish tradition, drawing from the Hebrew scriptures (Tanakh) and interpretive texts (like the Talmud and Kabbalah), also includes angelic beings with wings, such as the Seraphim and Cherubim described above.

In summary:

While the common image of all angels having wings is not biblically accurate, specific high-order celestial beings—the Cherubim, Seraphim, and Living Creatures—are explicitly described with multiple wings in the visions of Exodus, Isaiah, Ezekiel, and Revelation. Their wings are deeply symbolic, representing their roles as majestic guardians, reverent worshippers, and swift messengers of the divine throne.

The messengers or angels that had an encounter with men or women in the Bible, could be one of the hierarchal of angels as a servant or messenger of God for a specific purpose, assignment or engagement. The book of Hebrews emphasises Jesus superiority over angels portraying angels as powerful but created beings, "ministering spirits" (Heb 1:14) sent to serve those who will inherit salvation, not to be worshipped, but a being that can interchange its appearance to be like men as Heb 13:2 indicates that some have unknowingly entertained angels.

Jeff you are not the first researcher to bring this to light. I came to the same conclusion after reading the book "The Gods of the Bible" written by Mauro Bigilino and also the first 3 books that Paul Wallis published. I have been researching the ancient world of the Hebrews, Sumeria, Assyria, Akkad for many years. Yours is the latest work I have found on the subject.

I have experienced spirit guides, spiritual elders, ancestors that come with a pure heart and pure intent and all sorts of spiritual beings in the spirit world including totem animals, dragons, faeries, elves, gnomes, imps, vampiric entities, human demons and hives of planetary demons. I say none of this to impress you, it is simply how the primordial light works through my consciousness in the spirit world as a spiritual healer and spiritual guardian on various levels. The spiritual healing work that the primordial light accomplishes through my consciousness is amazing to experience. The spiritual guardianship work that the primordial light accomplishes through my consciousness I would not wish upon anyone, it is really challenging to experience. I have never experienced angels with wings or halo's in the spirit world. I have even participated in angel workshops so that I could connect with the angels. I didn't connect with anything in the spirit world whilst doing the extensive workshops on angels. Nothing. Zip. I am very curious. I just want to add here that demons can turn up wearing clocking devices which shine light. One has to be really careful when working in the spirit world. One has to be able to discern whether a spiritual being that presents itself actually works for the primordial light or if it is one of those spiritual beings that have separarted themselves from the primordal infinite light and are trying to trick you into believing they are working for the primordial light and then lead you astray. It is all hard learning in the end. One usually has to be dragged into false spiritual pathways to understand the false light and then the primordial light pulls one's consciousness out of the false light so that one cannot be tricked into walking into the false light and one can help others to move out of the false light.

Yahweh appears as a junior God in the Mesopotamian, Assyrian, Akkadian and Cannite pantheon of Gods according to Paul Wallis. I would agree that Yahweh was a teacher in physical form who taught how to live a long life. Yale university teaches that the cleaniness practices that Yahweh taught the Israelites were revolutionary in the time period that the Israelites received the teachings from Yahweh. Yahweh did not necessarily teach how to connect to the Primordial light or what Jews call Ein Sof (infinte light). Could sin mean missing the mark on spiritual cleanliness or missing the mark on what Yahweh specfically taught. Is sin about spirituallity at all. Because if Yahweh as a God is a teacher in a physical body, not the primordial infinite light that exists within everything everywhere, and Sin is about breaking Yahweh's teachings about maintaing a long life, what exactly is Sin. How do we define Sin in the context of Yahweh's teachiings, remembering that Yahweh is portrayed as a physical being.

Maybe Yahweh did teach spiritual connection but that doesn't seem to be part of the teachings if the Torah is read literally. Remember Yahweh had the Israelites annihalate/ genocide their relatives (the tribes of Canaan). To me this directive does not come from the loving aspect of the primordial light. I suppose it depends on how you read the Torah, literally, metaphorically or symbollically. More questions???????

I have studied the Kabbalah. The Kabblah is meant to be linked to the Torah according to Jewish teachings on the Kabbalah Personally I have never been able to link the Kabbalah to the Torah. I decided after reading some of your work to map Yod Heh Vav Heh (YHWH) out in the Kabbalah. Mapped out in the Kabbalah, my interpretation of Yod Heh Vav Heh was "the helping hand of the infinite primordial light opens a window in consciousness to recieve teachings of illumination" (my interpretation). As an expirement I then got out my mala beads and chanted Yod Heh Vav Heh 324 times. Three rounds of my mala beads. Big mistake. Don't ever do it. The window of illumination did open in my consciousness. However I was put into into a pressured state of consciousness in which I received spiritual insights and teachings very rapidly. The pressure in my consciousness and crown chakra or the area of Kether became enormous, to much for me to bear. After about a week I asked the primordial light to close the window of illumination in my consciousness. The window of illumination was in fact closed in my consciousness when I asked. Lots of angels (messengers) in the Kabbalah, three levels of Angels corresponding to the three levels of creation, and one level of Angels (messengers) corresponding to pre creation or the Supernal triangle.

The latest book I read argues that the roots of the Kabbalah which is meant to be associated with the Torah, first manifested in the wall art of ancient Assyria. The sephira of the Kabbalah are portrayed as Gods in the ancient Assyrian map of the tree of life. Written teachings on the Assyrian Tree of life are sparse, because the teachings would have been orally transmitted from teacher to initiate or recieved as revelations or spiritual insights. The sephira in the Kabbalah represent aspects of consciousness that are emmanated from Ein Sof and more or less remain very similar to the aspects of consciousness the Gods represented in the Assyrian tree of life. The gemartria (numerology) also remains much the same in the Kabbalah as in the ancient Assyrian tree of life. Can the Gods of the Assyrian Tree of Life be linked to angels or messengers????? Another question to answer. Were the Gods and Goddesses simply teachers and the angels their messengers ?????????

Your work has helped me to come into a greater understanding of what the Gods were. This piece on angels or messengers gives me more background knowledge and has helped me to understand more about the ancient world of the Hebrews and Israelites. Your work has also led me to ask even more questions Thankyou.

Etymology of "Angel": The word angel arrives in modern English from Old English engel (with a hard g) and the Old French angele.[11] Both of these derive from Late Latin angelus, which in turn was borrowed from Late Greek ἄγγελος angelos (literally "messenger").

Etymology of "Demon": The Ancient Greek word δαίμων (daimōn) denotes a spirit or divine power, much like the Latin genius or numen. Daimōn most likely came from the Greek verb daiesthai ('to divide' or 'distribute').

However, when examining the older English, and German languages, the word 'demon' was used to describe ALL spirits (Good & Evil), and over time, tended to be used more for the evil ones, while the term, "angel" tended to be used more for the good ones.

That trait is also common in eastern religions, where old Buddhist manuscripts translated into English used the same term (demon, or daemon) to mean any spirit.

According to the Hebrew writings of the Tanakh, the spirits YHWH used were "Watchers", "Messengers", "Destroyers", etc.

Dear Mr Benner. I thank you for your courage to bring up this subject. I just want to add one of many experiences I had since I am reborn (34 years back).

I had many encounter with these beings. Never have I seen one with wings, ever though some of my friends did. One example was in Dec. 1999 while participating in a Prayer country tour of 5000 km over 6 weeks by bicycles, to pray around the country every 100km, one day in our time to be quite and pray, I saw one dressed with a royal blue cape in the sky above our heads kneeling and playing the harp. The music was exquisitely divine and simple. Most of the 24 of us heard it.

I can add that many came in the form of people and yes, as messengers with Words or in silence, and many let themselves be seen in our environment. If my experiences can mean something, they lead me to confirm that the word 'Messenger' is the correct formulation of who they are.

No one has mentioned Daniel's angel, Michael, in Daniel chapter 10. There are angels, God's host that we cannot see. What about 2 Kings when Elisha could see many horses and chariots of fire that all other men could not see? What about Luke 2:8-15?

I agree that many are messengers, but not all. From these passages, these angels (or messengers) often do more than bring a message to light. They aren't flesh and blood but they exist in a heavenly realm that we cannot naturally see unless the Lord opens our eyes to see them. And we don't see them readily because we are so easily led astray to worship things other than God.

Interesting post. Pretty sure this "mal'aḵ" did not appear as a man:

Genesis 21:17 And God heard the voice of the lad. Then the angel (mal'aḵ) of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said to her, “What ails you, Hagar? Fear not, for God has heard the voice of the lad where he [is.]

Nor thus one:

Genesis 22:11 But the Angel (mal'aḵ) of the LORD called to him from heaven and said, “Abraham, Abraham!” So he said, “Here I am.”

My two cents. I was backing up my forklift then turned around to see someone standing behind me smiling at me. Which made me quickly slam on the brakes so I would not run them over. When I looked back they were gone and I was the only one in the yard.

Then the bible verse came to mind. The messenger of the Lord encamps around those who fear Him. Ponder on that around a pond. :o)

Personally I believe, we get some of our theology from art like ĥuman figures with wings. But actually only two groups of Malak are specifically meantioned as having wings. It is true Malak means messenger & the messenger can be a human(as a king or a boss sends a person to deliver a message / note) or it could be a celestial being (seen by the donky as in the story of Balaam & his donky) and I would go as far as to say the donkey himself was also a malak since he spoke to Balaam about the "unseen Malak".

Personal experience of angels trumps theology. I believe I have briefly spoken with two. They were a little puzzling, but they looked like ordinary people. They have made a lasting impact on my life. I have three friends who have seen many, including some taller than trees. I have read where ordinary people have 'visited' other places while asleep, and made an impact on others in those places. So they were messengers.

We need, however, to turn our eyes to Yahweh, the creator of angels, messengers, and all else. He deserves our attention, adoration, and appreciation.

What about Zechariah 5:9 with reference with the two "women" with the wind in their wings who carried the ephah between the heaven and the earth? They don't sound like ordinary women.

Does anyone have anything to offer on Job 1:6-12, and Job 2:1? It separately mentions the sons of God, from Satan, when appearing before the Lord.

Hi Jeff: You asked, Do you believe in extra-ordinary beings universally called angels? Have you found any evidence in the Bible that suggests these “messengers” were anything other than men?

I do believe in extra ordinary beings, using referred to as spirit beings that can be used by God as messengers.  I also think that men can be used as messengers, or even things like events and consequences being used to bring a message.

The passage in I Kings 22:19-22, God uses a “lying spirit,” to a prophet of Ahab’s.  And although I consider this a type of Jewish poetry, since God does not need counsel, I do believe that God can use anything in His creation to get a message to us.

I think in general we underestimate God because we ourselves are limited in fully understanding the Being that created us.

What??? "No wings," you say. Then why was Moses instructed to portray two Cherubims with outstretched wings covering the Mercy Seat? Was Ezekiel hallucinating when he saw the throne with strange types of cherubim, their wings outstretched and connected? Scripture describes a class of angels known as the seraphim with six wings. While winged messengers frequently present themselves to people as men, and not recorded as having wings, their designation as "sons of God" in the Old Testament should not be confused with being mere messengers. Some angels appear simply as humans, while others are described in literal terms as flying, as in Daniel 9:21, Revelation 14:6, Isaiah 6:2, and Ezekiel 10. These are not mere motifs. In Daniel 9:21, the Aramaic/Hebrew phrase "mu'af" is used by Daniel to describe Gabriel's flight to reach him. Instead of addressing the unbiblical idea of "no angels in the Bible," it would be appropriate to address the many different ranks and types of angels that vary from the commonly used messengers to the prince of angels (Michael)

Thank you Jeff! I had questioned the existence of angels and found what I currently believe to be true by watching a 4 part series entitled "The Unseen Realm" presented by Dr. Michael Heiser. I highly recommend it. It cleared the muddy water that I had encountered in PS. 82 and numerous verses in Job. It helps when you hear similar things from 2 trusted sources.

I would agree with Jeff Benner that "malak" refers to "messengers" and this is a "function" not a description of the "Creature Kind". So how we obtain the creature kind behind the function? We use the Law of Association, we know from Scripture that God dwells between the Keruv (a spelling Jeff uses in his Mechanical Translation of Genesis and Exodus) My two pennies is the spelling is "Cherub" or in Ancient Hebrew "Outside Head [at] Home" refers to creatures in heaven surrounding God.

Of the 66 contexts of "cherub" one refers to "cherub" "created" so the term "cherub" is a reference to the creature kind behind the function of "messengers". We also learn in Ezekiel 28 that one cherub first sinned causing other cherub to sin, and this is recorded by Moses in Job 4:18 - the Hebrew word "aman" tells you the "messengers" were breaking faith and doing "folly".

More: see my studies https://spiritualsprings.proboards.com/thread/167/jeff-benner-claim-angels-bible Shalom